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Dan ABA
02/18/14 01:58 AM  
Brett and Oxidized Compounds
I am wondering if anyone has any information on whether or not Brett can break down any oxidized compounds? I have a 2+ year old Lacto-only sour beer that I discovered oxidized pretty badly. In the last year the oxidation character is somehow going away. I am wondering that if I blend this into some ECY20 trub that I have available, if perhaps the Brett will help clean the beer up. Any information/thoughts would be much appreciated! Thanks!
derekA
02/18/14 10:12 AM  
Re: Brett and Oxidized Compounds
I don't believe so, at least I've never heard this.

Your lacto-only sour appears to be losing it's oxidation character without brett, why add it?
Dan ABA
02/18/14 03:46 PM  
Re: Brett and Oxidized Compounds
My thoughts are that creating an active fermentation with the ECY20 bugs amongst the oxidized beer may help to speed up the process of cleaning it out. This is completely based on blind gut feeling, so I was wondering if there is any known biochemical theory that would help me make a decision on whether or not to try this. As a side note, how and why the beer is slowly losing it's cardboard flavor is also a mystery to me.

If I am not able to clean up the beer within the next year or so, I will probably dump it. I am afraid of any of the oxidized compounds remaining in the "finished" product as I really hate the flavor of cardboard. I could leave it for a few more years on it's own just to see what happens, but I am ready to move on with this thing one way or the other.
Luke
02/18/14 07:46 PM  
Re: Brett and Oxidized Compounds
Lacto fermentation can approach terminal gravity in weeks to months.

Why choose to wait years and risk oxidation?
Dan ABA
02/18/14 08:36 PM  
Re: Brett and Oxidized Compounds
Sorry, let me clarify. It was actually a Lacto only fermentation for about 3 weeks (cultured Cascade Brewing dregs), then I added US-04 to it. The beer is now 2+ years old, and it oxidized pretty badly during the first year. In the last year the oxidation character seems to be disappearing, but I would like to speed up whatever is going on in there that is diminishing the cardboard flavor if possible.
Gabe H
02/19/14 09:29 AM  
Re: Brett and Oxidized Compounds
I'm pretty sure oxidization is a one way street. Is it possible it's another flavor that you're identifying as cardboard, but isn't?

I've read (Embrace the Funk maybe?) that cultured Cascade dregs have contained brett whatever the breweris claims are.
Dan ABA
02/19/14 03:20 PM  
Re: Brett and Oxidized Compounds
It's a pretty distinct wet cardboard flavor. In regards to Brett in Cascade beers, you might mean this: http://bkyeast.wordpress.com/2012/12/27/cascade-kriek-bug-isolation-part-i-2/

In the comments of that post, someone else isolated two strains of bacteria from a bottle of Sang Royal. The Brett that BKYeast found was in a bottle of Kriek. I used Kriek dregs for this beer, so I guess it very well could contain Brett! Thanks!

I suppose I might as well try my original plan. I'll be doing it with pure extract, so the labor won't be much. I'll be using a 3 gallon fermenter that I haven't used for two years, so not much loss on fermenter space. Why not, right?
Luke
02/19/14 07:00 PM  
Re: Brett and Oxidized Compounds
I don't think there is anything super special about Cascade's lactobacillus strain. A lot of their beers include additives which naturally boost acidity.

I would just order some Wyeast lacto and start over. You can have a great sour in a few months.
Dan ABA
03/11/14 12:37 AM  
Re: Brett and Oxidized Compounds
For what it's worth, I am going forward with this wacky idea! Probably dumb, but I like learning things the hard way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqeoQSZXs20&list=PLibE2BjPG_8Hd8ijiJI6ViBCZZwahsceQ&index=13
 
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