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tonyolympia
03/06/13 12:38 PM  
First post - Tips for fermenting with ECY01?
Hello, this is my first post on the BBB. I have some ECY01 (BugFarm) en route from NJ, and I'm in the process of putting together a recipe for my first sour ale. I'd appreciate any tips you folks can offer.

I envision this as something like a sour Southern English Brown. When it's ready, I plan to use a few bottles to inoculate the next sour beer, etc. etc.

My thinking in this has been influenced by Michael Tonsmire's "Brewing Sour Beers at Home" post:

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/11/brewing-sour-beer-at-home.html

Here's what I'm planning:

1.045 OG

60% Maris Otter

15% Munich

10% Wheat

10% Crystal 80

3% Flaked Barley

2% Carafa Special II

16 IBU from EKGs at 60 minutes.

I know I'll need to mash high. Is 156F high enough? Does the OG and the proportions of wheat, crystal, etc. look right? Do you have any recommendations for fermentation temperature? Anything else I should think about?

Thanks in advance!

brewinhard
03/07/13 06:37 PM  
Re: First post - Tips for fermenting with ECY01?
That blend really can dry beers out, almost a bit too much if you are not careful. What type of final gravity are you looking to attenuate too? I know Al B. likes to load up with crystal malts when making his reds/browns with his yeast blends knowing that they will still attenuate just fine.

tonyolympia
03/08/13 01:28 AM  
Re: First post - Tips for fermenting with ECY01?
This is my first sour, so I don't really know what sort of FG I can hope for. I assumed it would work down to 1.002 or 3 no matter what. If I bump the crystal up to 15-20%, and mash at 158, is it possible that gravity could level out in the 1.005-10 range? That sounds good to me.
brewinhard
03/12/13 06:46 PM  
Re: First post - Tips for fermenting with ECY01?
That sounds a bit better. Besides you really want to have some residual sugars left behind for the brett and bacteria to work on during the extended aging period.
Nick P.
03/20/13 12:30 PM  
Re: First post - Tips for fermenting with ECY01?
I think adding additional crystal is a great idea for sours, and have been doing that lately as well. I can't confirm but am hoping it adds body in the finished product that typically isn't there in sour beers that finish so dry. 156 is a good mash temp. I do primary ferment at room temperature (65-70 degrees summer) and then keep them for long term storage in my basement which has seasonal variations similar to how sours were wintered/summered in Belgium. best of luck to you. ECY01 is a great mixed blend and you should have great results with it if you have the patience.
tonyolympia
03/23/13 10:58 AM  
Re: First post - Tips for fermenting with ECY01?
Thanks for the input. I did bump up the crystal, and tried to mash at 158, but had trouble hitting temps and ended up at 154-156. It is what it is, I guess. I'll rack to secondary in a week, and see where the gravity is. I will say that the yeast flocc'd pretty quickly, so maybe there's a bit of food left in there.

I'm planning to pour 1/2 cup of the primary slurry into a Berliner Weisse wort. It will be interesting to see what sort of BW the bugfarm creates! My thought is that I want to mash for *slightly* less attenuation than the literature recommends for a BW, but still pretty good. I think that 150 might do the trick. (The first time I brewed a Berliner Weisse, I used a protein rest and a sacch rest at 147. I didn't like the results.) Then, I'll pitch the yeast and bugs at about 80F. Hopefully the bacteria will get an early foothold and sour it up. Any other thoughts?

Me
03/23/13 02:16 PM  
Re: First post - Tips for fermenting with ECY01?
bugfarm has way more bugs than just lacto for a berliner.

tonyolympia
03/23/13 05:26 PM  
Re: First post - Tips for fermenting with ECY01?
I got that. Really, it's just an experiment to see whether I can make something sour and refreshing with minimal added expense and effort, during the year that my brown ale is souring. I know that the primary yeast in ECY01 is a Saison strain, and will contribute more character than you would normally shoot for in a BW. What I don't know is how much funk and fruit the different brett strains will add, especially if the sacch strain attenuates below 1.005.. I'm hopeful that it will taste good.
Smokinghole
03/24/13 10:15 AM  
Re: First post - Tips for fermenting with ECY01?
It won't be anything that even loosely resembles a BW. I have made low ABV saisons and fermented it with ECY20/01 and it tastes more like well a saison mixed with a lambic. Very funky decently sour, and dry. You could make any pale beer you want and it will turn out roughly the same. Sour, and funky. My saisons have about 20ibus and so they have some hop bitterness mixed with the sour which I quite enjoy.

The only way I see you avoiding the same character I got is to ferment it with a clean primary strain and then add this after primary. However I still think you'll end up with a rather funky beer with some sourness.

tonyolympia
03/24/13 01:05 PM  
Re: First post - Tips for fermenting with ECY01?
How hop-sensitive is the Lacto in bugfarm? I would increase the hop bitterness in this theoretical beer if I knew it wouldn't take the Lacto completely out of the equation.
Smokinghole
03/24/13 03:24 PM  
Re: First post - Tips for fermenting with ECY01?
I don't know how hop sensitive the lacto is in bugfarm. I can tell you I went from 35ish IBUs in one batch to 20ish in another. It still soured. However there is more than lactobacillus in bugfarm/county. So whether it was lactobacillus or pediococcus that caused my sourness I couldn't really tell you. Trust me if you hop the beer up past 10, 20, or even 30 you'll still get PLENTY of sourness. I used what I think was a lactobacillus isolate from ECY20 in a belgian dubbel. The beer was 8% abv and like 35ibus (calculated) and it still ended up with a nice tart character after only three months. I wasn't entirely expecting this to happen but it did and I was happy for the flavor.

So you can up the bitterness to whatever level you realistically want. I'm about ready to use the same bacteria in a Tripel that will be hopped to like 50ibus. So we'll see how that goes. If it sours and is really unbalanced at first that's fine I'll just age it until it comes into balance.

Gordon
04/09/13 11:45 PM  
Re: First post - Tips for fermenting with ECY01?
I did a beer with about 50 IBUs with Bugfarm IV with no trouble. Still have that culture running- it has a very aggressive pedio/other ropey dominant bug now that will sour in 6 weeks.
Al B
04/10/13 07:48 AM  
Re: First post - Tips for fermenting with ECY01?
The Lactobacillus used in ECY01/20 is L. brevis. Origianlly isolated from kefir, this strain is hop tolerant although I can't tell you how much. If you want mostly lactic acid, you'll probably want additional Lacto/Pedio. The Brettanomyces will give plenty of acidity - of which is an array of different fatty acids.

Hope that helps.

 
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