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Nick P.
05/22/12 12:44 PM  
Recipe Help: Rubarb Saison with Lacto and Brett Dr
Alright, so I'm considering making this beer. The idea is that the Lacto with give it some sourness, and then the rhubarb will enhance that. The Brett Drie will probably ferment fairly clean and dry with some nice fruity and a tiny bit of funkyness.

Lacto - pitch Starter for 48 hours on a Saison wort hopped to 10 IBU's

Brett Drie - Pitch a nice big slurry of Brett Drie after 48 hours to ferment it out completely in 3-4 weeks.

Add Rhubard into secondary to add a bit of tartness, and a bit of vegatal earthy flavor to complement the fruity Brett Drie and hops.

What do you all think about this?

Here's what I'm considering -

I'm considering not using the Wyeast lacto at all..or pitching that into primary or Secondary

Also pitching a Saison yeast (3711) in conjunction with the Brett Drie.

Any thoughts on this would be helpful as I've never use Wyeast Lactobacillus. I've always used Blends pitched in Primary or Secondary.

TimC
05/22/12 08:37 PM  
Re: Recipe Help: Rubarb Saison with Lacto and Bret
Others may have more experience with your fermentation plan, but I have made a rhubard sour. See previous thread: http://babblebelt.com/newboard/thread.html?tid=1108752780&th=1275347958&pg=&tpg=1

Adding 1 lb/gallon only gave faint earthy vegetal aroma and taste. I did cook it down to mush. Maybe try splitting raw and cooked?

Almighty
05/24/12 05:25 PM  
Re: Recipe Help: Rubarb Saison with Lacto and Bret
Nick-

I think you have the thinking correct for this beer, it is just a matter of what you want in the finished beer. I like a tart (not sour) super dry Saison with some complexity that will change over time.

I would add the lacto, but I'm not sure if I would let it go for 2 days. Maybe a day or pitch it with the Brett. And I have had good results getting the Brett Drie pretty dry, but if it is not dry enough for you then add the 3711 at that point. Or if you need this beer done quicker for a party.

And I have no experience with rhubarb.

Gordon
05/25/12 01:44 AM  
Re: Recipe Help: Rubarb Saison with Lacto and Bret
I've used rhubarb twice, both times around 2lb/gal. That's enough for some tartness, earthy green flavor, and color. I get some perceived bitterness as well, but I'm not experienced enough with the rhubarb to give you much of an idea on the variables involved.

Personally, I'd skip the lacto and just go B. Drie followed by 3711 if needed.

Nick
06/21/12 02:25 PM  
Re: Recipe Help: Rubarb Saison with Lacto and Bret
Just wanted to give an update. Since I hadn't used Lacto by itself before I decide to pitch it into the third running's of an IPA I was brewing. I pitched the lacto into 1 gallon of that at 100 degrees and kept it in the 90's for 2 days. It smelled rank during that time. Then I pitched a slurry a 3 bretts, Wyeast Brett L, Wyeast Brett B, and Brett Drie. It's starting to smell really tasty now.

As for the Rubarb Saison. I'm yet to do that and decided to not rush this one for my club's Summer BBQ. I'm thinking that I won't use Lacto from my Rhubarb Saison and I'll just go with 2 lbs. per gallon of rhubarb to add the tartness.

Daniel
04/30/14 02:07 PM  
Re: Recipe Help: Rubarb Saison with Lacto and Bret
Hi,

Was researching different rhubarb brews to try and decide what style to make and found this thread. This is by far the most interesting I've found. However, I'm at a loss for how much Rhubarb to use. I'd like to get a nice pucker but would rather do this without lacto. Did you try the 2 lbs per gallon?

I'm also undecided as to whether I'd like to add brett in with some 3711 or whether to just condition with it.

Did you end up making this beer?
Daniel
04/30/14 02:07 PM  
Re: Recipe Help: Rubarb Saison with Lacto and Bret
Hi,

Was researching different rhubarb brews to try and decide what style to make and found this thread. This is by far the most interesting I've found. However, I'm at a loss for how much Rhubarb to use. I'd like to get a nice pucker but would rather do this without lacto. Did you try the 2 lbs per gallon?

I'm also undecided as to whether I'd like to add brett in with some 3711 or whether to just condition with it.

Did you end up making this beer?
Gabe H
04/30/14 06:54 PM  
Re: Recipe Help: Rubarb Saison with Lacto and Bret
My experience with rhubarb has been a little different. I think 1 lb/gal is the max amount of rhubard to use and I only use that much if I'm using fruit as well and want to make sure the rhubarb is evident behind the strawberries (for instance). 2 lbs per gallon make the beer vegetal, savory, and unpalatable to me. I also think it is important to use bacteria as well. Rhubarb has lots of malic acid which is perceived as being much harsher than lactic acid. Lactobacillus, or at least the ones we use in brewing (I think), are malolactic meaning they will convert the mailic to lactic acid producing a much smoother beer. I've made a really hoppy saison with rhubarb added in the kettle with the whirpool hops and feel that 1/2 lb per gallon gives a subtle, but definite rhubarb flavor tha melds with the hops, brett, and other flavors in the beer.
Mike T
05/02/14 09:38 AM  
Re: Recipe Help: Rubarb Saison with Lacto and Bret
I did 1.5 lbs/gal of chopped/frozen/thawed rhubarb in a Berliner weisse and was very happy with the character. Certainly not overpowering, even for a beer that delicate: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2014/01/rhubarb-berliner-weisse-tasting.html
Daniel
10/17/14 12:14 PM  
Re: Recipe Help: Rubarb Saison with Lacto and Bret
Thanks for the comments Gabe and Mike. I ended up going with around 8 lbs of strawberries and around 4-5 lbs of Rhubarb for 5 gallons. Cooked it all down to a slurry. I added this to the beer a mere week after being brewed to take advantage of the fresh local strawberries that were in season back in early June. Fermented primary with Belgian Saison yeast (which dried the beer out to a bone without any hassles). Added ECY brux and naardenensis with the fruit.

When I added the fruit, I had to split the batch over two containers. The first I bottled about 6 weeks ago and many of the carbonated bottles had some pretty intense funk flavors amped up way higher than what I'm used to.

Bottled the second batch yesterday and couldn't be happier with the uncarbonated results. The aroma seems dominated by Brux smells and I don't get any of the unpleasant flavors or aromas people have written about Naard in its earlier phases. It will be interesting to see if that intense funk comes with the change in pressure. Tartness is pleasant despite not having used any bacteria to convert the malic acid.
 
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