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09/29/11 03:34 PM  
Re: Protein Rests
tried to bump up this old thread,


but for some odd reason it never showed up at the top. anywhoo....

here is what I was trying to post...

so the sense I seem to get from having read this thread a few times over the past few days is that Weyerman pils is slightly undermodified and that therefore a stepmash akin to the DuPont method shouldn't be detrimental to head formation and retention.


I'm getting ready to make this:

71% Weyerman German Pils

12% Munich 10L

12% Torrified Wheat ( just b/c I like the texture it brings into the mouthfeel)

5% Acidulated

given everything discussed in this thread, I'm wondering if the acidulated malt is really necessary?

09/29/11 08:17 PM  
Re: Protein Rests
I stopped using protein rests but some very good brewers like using short rests of about 15 - 20 minutes at 55C when using high proportions of Pils malt.

I still step mash, just without the protein rest.

I'm not crazy about acidulated malt so I just treat the brewing liquor with lactic acid to 5.5 +/- .2 pH before adding the grains. I've found the grains will self buffer and balance the pH properly when using this method.

09/29/11 10:35 PM  
Re: Protein Rests
I only use a protein rest for a Hefe or Belgian Wit because of the huge proportion of wheat. I use Pils a lot for my base malt and have never felt the need for a protein rest whether using German or Belgian Pils. 31 years of brewing seems to be a good test!
tom sawyer
09/30/11 08:26 AM  
Re: Protein Rests
The Weyermann should benefit from a short protein rest, and in any case you won't have a problem with head retention with the wheat in your recipe.

I recently bought a sack of Rahr Old World pils and it definitely needs a protein rest. Check your tag, it should give you some indication of the modification. Either the DBCG or the ratio of DBFG/DBCG will give you some clue about modification.

tom sawyer
09/30/11 08:30 AM  
Re: Protein Rests
I also think a 15min rest at 130F isn't going to harm the beer even if it isn't needed. If you're using wheat and/or domestic base malts/crystal, these have naturally higher protein level to begin with. For the most part I don't bother, but when I've done it I still get good head retention.
09/30/11 11:57 AM  
Re: Protein Rests
interesting replies folks, thanks. I made a 100% pils saison w/ 3724 a short while back and the head retention was absolutely awful. I step mashed from 113 up through 168 with the longest rest being at 148 and 15 minutes or so at all others. my guess as to why was that the yeast was stressed due to the fact that I let the temperature rise to just above 100f during primary. so this time around I'm trying to dot my i's and cross my t's before hand and shoot for a nice, rocky, foamy head. Inn addition to being more careful to my primary fermentation temps, I'm going to give the wort a huge blast of saaz pellets and EKG's at 1 min.
10/01/11 05:19 AM  
Re: Protein Rests
I often step mash belgian and German style beers with a short rest at 55 C (5-10 minutes), a hochkurz sacch rest (usually short low rest for 10 minutes and high for the remainder) followed by a glyco-protein rest at 72 C for 10 minutes.

Results in a head you could happily sleep on - dense, tight and pillowy.

10/01/11 08:58 AM  
Re: Protein Rests
I think it's universally accepted that brewers like really good head.
10/01/11 03:12 PM  
Re: Protein Rests
I opted to go the step mash route... 20min rests at 113f-123f-131f-140f-148f-154f and a final rest at 163f. This was a small 2 gallon batch done BIAB style. ( first time with this method, so I'm a little weary. it just feels strange mashing 4 pounds of grain in 5 gallons of water.),. it's currently fermenting away at about 86f eighteen hours after pitching. plan to hold it there until the 24 hour mark and then raise it up to 90f.

What I think I'm walking away from this with is that I can probably get away with a much simpler step mash procedure with say, 3 rests, instead of 6 or 7.

10/25/11 12:08 PM  
Re: Protein Rests
Get a copy of the malt analysis sheet, that is the only way to tell if you need a protein rest or not. If you post the numbers I can walk you through the analysis (pertaining to the protein rest).

Measuring the pH of your mash is the only way to tell if you need the acidulated malt. I'm not up on all the threads about it lately, but it should not have any flavor impact at those percentages (according to the manufacturer), so the only reason to be using it is for pH adjustment.

10/27/11 10:00 AM  
Re: Protein Rests
In my limited experience with acidulated malt (two batches), while the manufacturer claims that it will not have an impact on flavor, both times that I used it there was in fact an impact. I definitely noticed a lactic tang, and I used even less than 5% (around 2-3%). I've heard that acidulated malt can vary greatly from one bag to another, not sure if that's true or not. Either way, next time I try to counteract a high ph I'll be using measured amounts of lactic acid as opposed to the malt.

Of course, your experience may be different from my own.

Nick P.
12/13/11 11:30 AM  
Re: Protein Rests
I did this step mash schedule with 100% Belgian Pils for a Patersbier and had an amazing rocky white head!

Traditional Saison Mash Schedule

Protein Rest at 115 degrees for 30 minutes

Peptidase rest at 136 degrees for 25 minutes

Saccrification Rest at 145 for 30 minutes

Dextrine rest at 156 for 15 minutes

Mashed out and got about 7 gallons

Sparged at 167 for 30 minutes

12/13/11 06:26 PM  
Re: Protein Rests
I can honestly say my experiment yielded far less than stellar results. The only difference I can think were I to attempt it again would be to perhaps use undermodidied malts.
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