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tom sawyer
03/26/10 02:24 PM  
White Labs WLP655 Sour Blend
Hi I'm Lennie and I love brewing, and sour beers.

I have one kriek under my belt. Its 18 months old and very tasty stuff, something like Kriek de Ranke. It was a kit, Dawsons Kriek, and I used Wyeast 3278 lambic blend. I have a second lambic going with this blend now, I added some Belgian D2 syrup to get more of a Flanders Red flavor (this after tasting my first Rodenbach Grand Cru-yum!).

In any case, I saw that White Labs has WLP655 so I ordered some. I was looking on their website and while they don't say what's in it, some Q&A led me to believe this doesn't have any "regular" yeast the way the Wyeast blend does (a wit yeast). Although it does list Sacharomyces as being in the blend.

My questions are:

2. Should I start my primary with a Belgian yeast? I have WLP400 (wit) and WLP530 (Westmalle).

3. Anyone know what array of yeasts/bugs are White Labs' blend? It says "Includes Brettanomyces, Saccharomyces, and the bacterial strains Lactobacillus and Pediococcus." I suppose since they sell three kinds of Brett they might all be present.

4. Can I freeze an aliquot of this blend? I freeze other yeasts with glycerine, just wondered if it possible to get additional uses out of a vial by saving some and growing it up as I need it.

03/26/10 02:41 PM  
Re: White Labs WLP655 Sour Blend
In answer to #2, you should be fine just using the blend without additional yeast. That's why they add the Sacch. I'm not sure what the full menu of bugs is in the blend though.

03/26/10 05:13 PM  
Re: White Labs WLP655 Sour Blend
I have a plambic going right now with those critters. I pitched a fairly fresh vial into a 1053 starting gravity and it took off like a rocket! 1.5 months later it had a nice pellicle forming on it already! now the pellicle is a good 1/4 inch think and funky and it is in glass sitting on top of the entire yeast cake (which it will for about 18 mos or so). I have another with the WY blend and have yet to taste either so I can't really compare the two.
Al B
03/26/10 09:00 PM  
Re: White Labs WLP655 Sour Blend
Last time I looked at the WL sour blend, there were 2 distinct bretts in there 9 most likely their strains of lambicus & bruxellensis). I don't know what Sacch is in ther if any - if you look closely, the vials of sour mix contain much less bugs than the regular offerings.

So, it won't hurt to add another yeast. But its not a must either for sour brews. I like to add flor sherry yeast to the mix for example.

You can freeze an aliquote of course, but storage and strain viability will be a concern over the course of time. Populations will shrink with glycerine as opposed to lyophilization too. But for year - should be OK.

Lastly, I will offer another bugFarm this year (by popular demand it seems) - whether its through normal channels here on the BBB or on a biz web site.

Al Bug

tom sawyer
03/26/10 10:23 PM  
Re: White Labs WLP655 Sour Blend
Brewin, I think the Wyeast stuff had no pedio, the Whitelabs does.

Al I'll maybe pitch some WLP530 with this vial. And I'll be looking for your next bug farm. I think I'm going to get a barrel for beer too and do the solera thing, that'd give me indefinite buggage.

03/27/10 12:07 AM  
Re: White Labs WLP655 Sour Blend
<<Lastly, I will offer another bugFarm this year (by popular demand it seems) - whether its through normal channels here on the BBB or on a biz web site. >>

I can't wait! i'm a newb to this site, but your bug farm posts brought me here...I hope to get in however you do it.

03/29/10 01:20 PM  
Re: White Labs WLP655 Sour Blend
Just another voice in the choir hoping to get my hands on some of Al B's bug farm! I missed it twice now I think, I'll have to pay better attention to the board this time.


tom sawyer
03/29/10 05:16 PM  
Re: White Labs WLP655 Sour Blend
Just noticed I posted no question #1.

I read that Wyeast has sherry yeast, maybe WL has some as well. I started a WLP530 Belgian yeast yesterday so I'll have it to throw in the mix. I think I'll brew next weekend. I pick the bugs up on Thursday along with a sack of pils malt.

06/08/10 07:42 PM  
Re: White Labs WLP655 Sour Blend
Tom - do you have any confirmation regarding that there are no pedio in the wyeast lambic packs?

This would seem odd to me because as far as Ive read pedio are the play a much larger role in lambics than do lacto

06/09/10 12:32 PM  
Re: White Labs WLP655 Sour Blend
I would be surprised if the WY lambic blend did not contain pedio.
Rob B
06/09/10 12:58 PM  
Re: White Labs WLP655 Sour Blend
From Wyeast's website...

"YEAST STRAIN: 3278 | Belgian Lambic Blend™

Contains a selection of Saccharomyces and non-Saccharomyces including Belgian-style wheat beer yeast, sherry yeast, two Brettanomyces strains and lactic acid bacteria. While this mixture does not include all possible cultures found in Belgian Lambics, it is representative of the organisms most important for the desirable flavor components of these beers as they are brewed in West Flanders."

I would assume the lactic acid bacteria are pedio and lacto.

Al B
06/09/10 01:04 PM  
Re: White Labs WLP655 Sour Blend
They do have pedio in the lambic blend, they also sell it alone. It has not made my beers "sick" from any slime-production however in the past.
06/09/10 02:24 PM  
Re: White Labs WLP655 Sour Blend
only time i got something sick from pedio was building up dregs of cantillon. and it ended up making my best sours.
06/09/10 02:48 PM  
Re: White Labs WLP655 Sour Blend
What characteristics does sherry flor generally add? The main flavor I associate with it is nuttiness, but I've always assumed that was from intentional oxidation.
Al B
06/09/10 03:00 PM  
Re: White Labs WLP655 Sour Blend
Flor sherry will lend sherry -like esters and probably some acetyleldhyde (green apple) to lambic. It creates a flor (brownish in color) like a pellicle along with brett when exposed to O2. Highly attenuative and strong fermenter. I always use it in lambic.
tom sawyer
06/11/10 08:16 AM  
Re: White Labs WLP655 Sour Blend
Glad to hear the Wyeast has a fairly full complement of bugs, I've had good luck with it and have two more lambics going with it.

Interesting to hear the sherry flor is brown, I added some dark Belgian candi syrup to an 8-mth-old lambic and the resulting pellicle had some distinctly brown stuff in it.

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