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04/06/09 10:09 PM  
Hops + Funk?
I'm curious of peoples' experiences with fairly hoppier beers and wild yeasts. I've read about potential clashes between acidity and bitterness, but i figured that primarily for really sour beers.

I just transferred two experimental beers and tasted for the first time. Both were around 30 IBUs and OG around 1.045.

Batch one was a sort of honey/braggot saison, fermented with white labs saison2 and brett C. 18 days old

Batch two, pale malt, lil special B, fermented with starter made from dregs of Mikkeller It's Alive, Lost Abbey Gift of Magi, Saison Rue, and Gueze Fond Tradition. 10 days old

Both beers had a great aroma, but upon tasting I found a sort of clash between sharp phenolics and hop bitterness.

I realize they're both pretty young, but do any of yall notice this sort of clash in hoppier funky beers(notice it fading hopefully too?)?

04/07/09 11:36 AM  
Re: Hops + Funk?
When I think of a hoppy, funky beer, I think or Orval, which is executed damn near flawlessly. But in that case, I think a lot of it is from the dry hop, and less the bittering charges. I have often thought of making a bretty IPA, and likely will someday. I had a bretty American Amber ale once that was fantastic, great balance between hops and funk.

I think the key is to keep the IBUs down to a reasonable number, but still go for a reasonable amount of flavor and aroma.

04/07/09 02:20 PM  
Re: Hops + Funk?
I think they can go well it will just depend. De Ranke XX bitter is said to go sour after time (farmhouse ales I believe) and it was said by the author to stay balanced.

There are a few Brett IPA's. Haven't tried one yet but think it is worth it. Guess everyones tastes are different though. Even La terrior from New Belgium is dry hopped.

As for the all Brett hoppy beer?? Worth a try..

04/07/09 04:35 PM  
Re: Hops + Funk?
I did a relatively hoppy saison last summer which I blended with a REAL sour starter, and then dry-hopped with an ounce of belgian saaz hops. Saison was fermented with the WY farmhouse with relatively heavy late hop additions, and the starter was made from cantillon and some other funky beers which got nice and tart after sitting at 90F for a week. Blended the two in secondary (with dry hops), and let the bugs go to work. After a month or two the beer got down to approx 1.001. I bottled, and definitly found the high flavor additions of hops to taste kind of weird with the funk/sour flavors. I love hoppy beers, and I love sour beers, but the together did not really marry well in my experience. The two parts alone tasted great - saison was nice, fruity, hoppy, the sarter was nice and funky, real sour...but again the blend just didn't cut it for me. I liked it but didn't think it was anything special.

I still have most of the bottles, almost a year later - and while not so wonderful young as a young beer, I have a feeling that it might start to get real good with a little bit more age.

04/13/09 03:21 PM  
Re: Hops + Funk?
this isnt the same but i did 1 gal of a double ipa with a belgian yeast and blended it with a gallon of a sour wit beer at bottling and it came out great. tastes almost like grapefruit juice. not the same as blending a geuze and a hoppy beer in the glass but really drinkable. im already planning on mixing 5 gal of each next time.
04/27/09 03:12 PM  
An update for the clash of hops and funk:

I just tasted both the honey saison and (what i've been calling) golden dregs.

Both beers have lost the phenolic/bitterness clash that I picked up during transfer.

Neither beers are that sour, though they both show a bit of funkiness. I remember reading (what i think Chad was referring to) de Baets' part in Farmhouse Ales, that while young, well made traditional saisons' bitterness would dominate, but with age sourness would take over, though the beer seemed in balance through the whole span (talking specifically of XX Bitter IIRC). While it is likely true that maintaining the balance between sourness and bitterness is crucial, and perhaps what BPotts is experiencing, I think what I've observed is more of a clash betweeen brett phenolics and bitterness, as opposed to sourness and bittterness. The bitterness in both beers has remained fairly constant, but the young funk fermentation character is what has changed (cleaned up). I've seen this in my clean beers as well, it just seems that with the funky stuff it may take a bit longer to come together.



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