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09/24/08 08:20 PM  
Ron's Historic Recipes Results
<<Another curious aspect was steeping hops in 142-172F water at a high rate(for example 5.63 lbs/barrel for the SSS) rather than in the boiling wort. Seemed to work nicely, if not for using a ton of hops in a modern day shortage. The hop tea was then dumped on the carm. malt sorta "deglazing".>>

"Al Brown" just curious how the hop tea worked out. I was skimming the brewing text for the IPA, and they mention saving the spent hops for a porter as the aroma is less important. It later goes one to talk about the amount of wort abosorbed by the hops. Then when I reviewed the porter section, it described the same hopping method of steeping the hops in water. At no point did I read where hops where added to wort. Maybe this is why old recipes seem to use such a large quantity of hops????

Could you give a summary how the historic beers you brewed from Ron Pattinson blog turned out. I'm interested in giving a porter and an IPA a try.

Cheers, Dan

Al B
09/25/08 07:33 AM  
Re: Ron's Historic Recipes Results
<<At no point did I read where hops where added to wort. Maybe this is why old recipes seem to use such a large quantity of hops????>>

Same here WitSok. I found that the hops were steeped in water @ 142-172F for some time. Due to the low gravity of water, plenty of bitterness is extracted at this temp. It was a theory that the hops long ago were lower in %AA, or not stored as well, or increase preservative effects. Not sure. Perhaps to re-use the hops for another brew as you say.

I brewed a second batch of Barclays 1805 Porter not to long ago. I'll check my notes tonight for more details.

I think it had 1.87 lbs of hops/bbl, 56% pale and 44% brown malt. I used Kent whole leaf from Freshops. Yeast was 1099 whitbread. Due to the large amount of brown malt, it takes quite a bit of time to reach terminal gravity, that is after a strong primary ferm. the SG will be higher than "normal" like 1025-1030. A period of months in the secondary will be necessary. This particular recipe has TONS of coffee flavor.

Al Barclay

09/25/08 07:38 PM  
Re: Ron's Historic Recipes Results
Obviously good enough to make another batch!

<<It was a theory that the hops long ago were lower in %AA, or not stored as well, >> Yep, I've familar with these two hypothesises. I can also understand the rational for the third. I guess the use of the hops surprized me as other "historic" recipes called for boiling large amounts of hops. This was the first source I've read that called for steeping in the liquor only. I'm truly glad to hear that you were able to extract a fair amount of bitterness. Did you get much hop flavor or aroma, or wsas it mainly bitterness? Makes me more eager to give a try.

I still wonder if this was the common practice until some brewer figured out they could get the same bitterness with less hops by boiling them in wort. I might have been a simple evolution in the brewing process. Not that it really matters, but I gave me something to ponder.

I was thinking of trying a later porter recipe: 83% pale, 13% brown, 4% roast ~2lb/bbl hops. If I did my math right that should be about 4-5 ounces of hops for my nomrla 5.7 gal batch. Now how to keep the hot liquor at 140-170F for 8-9 hours.

Again, thanks for the feedback! Cheers, Dan

Al B
09/25/08 09:33 PM  
Re: Ron's Historic Recipes Results
1st thing: I used 1.87oz/3gal, not lbs/bbl - I have to look at Ron's recipe again for the TT porter. But it sounds you're on the right track. One guy conferring w/ Ron said that a scale-back of 25% hops would be more accurate in that present day hops have more AA%. That's what I did if I recall. Its not a huge difference i don't think. Taste the hop tea and you'll see it will have a fair amount of bitterness. I steeped mine for a couple of hours - during the mash + sparge. After carmelizing a portion of the first runnings into a thick goo in the kettle, then I poured in the hop tea. It felt good.

I would say there was some flavor (call it 1st wort hopping in a way), but mostly bitterness. No aroma to the brew - but the kitchen smelled great. These are bitter beers which mellow after long maturation, I reckon.

I plan to do a 1906 Fuller's Old Burton next (I forget where I found this one). Its a strong ale 1075 with some flaked maize, sugar, and caramel (not crystal) - this perplexed me - a brewer's caramel I think, it was 0.8oz/5gal. Although here, I'll add hops in wort.

I also did a 1877 triple stoudt - 40% pale, 40% amber, 17.5% brown, 2.5% black + 6oz kent/5gal. Unfortunately, some hop leafs found their way into the carboy, more specifically, the blow-off tube......I'm still finding black spots all over the cellar.

10/01/08 01:31 PM  
Re: Ron's Historic Recipes Results
I have the amber and brown malt already purchased to do one of the old time XXX porter/stouts. We'll still plan on adding a bit of roast malt but not the normal 10-12% I use in my modern imperial stouts.

Now just to find some time and build up a slurry.


11/19/08 02:50 PM  
Re: Ron's Historic Recipes Results
Finally brewed the batch of SSS stout last weekend. For 25 lbs of grain total, it was 3 lbs of brown malt and 4.25 lbs of amber malt.

Yeast was a combo of Yorkshire and Thames Valley slurry.

cheers petec

12/02/08 04:42 PM  
Re: Ron's Historic Recipes Results
For the SSS stout from whitbread, mine went from ~1.100 down to 1.018 after 15 days of primary. 2 lbs of sugar were part of the bill for my 3.5 gallons worth.

It'll rest in secondary for a few weeks then go to keg either right before the holidays or right after.

cheers petec

04/02/09 09:12 PM  
Re: Ron's Historic Recipes Results
Finally got around to brewing a 1844 Griffin regular porter today. Tasted pretty good going into the fermenter. Now I need to try a historic IPA!
Al B
04/03/09 07:11 AM  
Re: Ron's Historic Recipes Results
Good to hear Witsok,

I'm about to bottle my latest 1805 Barclay TT Porter (this batch I got the starting gravity right). Hopefully I can squeeze it into a comp. The large amount of brown malt produces a very unique porter.

Al Barclay

07/27/09 09:52 PM  
Re: Ron's Historic Recipes Results
Just put the porter on tap. I must say that I was impressed. I can see why porter was so popular. For such a simple beer, it truly has a multi-dimensional character. It is so nice having a roasty beer that isn't astringent. I like it better than many modern day porters.

Just brewed an IPA based on Ried's 1839 IPA. Steeped 10 oz of Fuggles in the brewing liquor the night before brewing. 100% Golden Promise ferment with Wyeast 1099. Just transfered to secondary with 2 oz of Fuggles and 1 oz Goldings for dry hops. Hope it turns out as good as the porter.

07/28/09 03:50 PM  
Re: Ron's Historic Recipes Results
A few months back I brewed a Porter somewhat similar to like a 1920's or 30's London Porter. The base malt was a mixture of Maris Otter, American 6-row, and Belgian Pale. The roast malt consisted of mostly brown malt and some British chocolate malt. I also included about 3/4lb of homemade black invert syrup and a dash of unmalted grain. SG was about 1044 and it was well received by a lot of people considering it didn't use the "typical" contemporary Porter ingredients (crystal and black malts).

I'm really starting to like brown malt so I might mail order a bag as the local shop doesn't seem to have it on hand all the time. What brands do you guys prefer? Best I can tell, easiest ones to obtain are Crisp, Fawcett, and Baird. I believe the local shop gets Baird and so far it's worked pretty well, but I'm interested in trying the Fawcett brown malt as I hear it's a little darker.

What about amber malts? Maybe I'll start a new thread on roasted malts.


07/28/09 04:41 PM  
Re: Ron's Historic Recipes Results
NOt many places carry both the amber and the brown. I needed to order one via mail order even though my local shop is morebeer.


07/28/09 10:54 PM  
Re: Ron's Historic Recipes Results
I purchased my brown malt from NB, and they carry Crisp. It definatley seems different than their amber. I've read that Baird amber and brown are the same malt. I find this hard to believe, but I never used either. I've never used TF brown either, but in general I like their malts.
Al B
07/29/09 07:28 AM  
Re: Ron's Historic Recipes Results
TF brown and amber are a touch darker than Crisp generally. Niagra Tradition carries TF.
11/11/09 08:01 PM  
Re: Ron's Historic Recipes Results
FYI, morebeer.com now has Crisp brown malt available (slightly cheaper for shipping if one is on the West Coast).

My local HBSupplier has Baird "brown" malt listed as "amber/brown," which I find terribly confusing.

I am glad to hear that others are making Ron's recipes. Some of these beers are amazing. Has anyone tried the "1914 Courage X Ale?" It is a low-alcohol mild, and is a fantastic session beer -- I have my third batch of this in a keg right now, and can't wait to tap it.

The grist information in his books is useful, too -- the contribution he has made to homebrewing, and to knowledge of brewing history is just flat-out unprecedented.

On a rare weekday off, I just put together the 1941 Whitbread IPA (strong version), as a WW II -era beer suitable for a Veteran's Day tribute.

Maybe a Ron Pattinson swap is in order some time? It would be interesting to see how other brewers' takes on the old porters and stouts, and everything else, would add up.

11/12/09 11:15 AM  
Re: Ron's Historic Recipes Results
The first half of this thread reminded me of a post I read a while ago, about Moonlight Brewing experimenting with hop tea:


11/12/09 05:20 PM  
Re: Ron's Historic Recipes Results
Similar to the blogger’s experiments with hop tea, I found that 150-160F made the best tea for adding to the secondary. Using wort made it much better than with water, though it still had a disagreeable “grassy” component which took several months to fade. There was a substantial aroma contribution and a little bitterness as well. There are several threads on the northern brewer forum if you’re interested.
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